http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2007/10/17/court-clears-way-for-suit-hating-on-t-mobiles-locking-etf-poli/ Engadget Mobile Comments for http://www.engadgetmobile.com/media/feedlogo.gif http://www.engadgetmobile.com en-us Copyright 2008 Weblogs, Inc. The contents of this feed are available for non-commercial use only. Blogsmith http://www.blogsmith.com/http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2007/10/17/court-clears-way-for-suit-hating-on-t-mobiles-locking-etf-poli/http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2007/10/17/court-clears-way-for-suit-hating-on-t-mobiles-locking-etf-poli/Oct 17th 2007 1:46AMhttp://www.engadgetmobile.com/2007/10/17/court-clears-way-for-suit-hating-on-t-mobiles-locking-etf-poli/http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2007/10/17/court-clears-way-for-suit-hating-on-t-mobiles-locking-etf-poli/
Chris]]>Oct 17th 2007 10:33AMhttp://www.engadgetmobile.com/2007/10/17/court-clears-way-for-suit-hating-on-t-mobiles-locking-etf-poli/http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2007/10/17/court-clears-way-for-suit-hating-on-t-mobiles-locking-etf-poli/Oct 17th 2007 2:21AMhttp://www.engadgetmobile.com/2007/10/17/court-clears-way-for-suit-hating-on-t-mobiles-locking-etf-poli/http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2007/10/17/court-clears-way-for-suit-hating-on-t-mobiles-locking-etf-poli/

Also if your monthly bill went up $20 a month just to have the overhyped iPhone you deserve what you got. ]]>Oct 17th 2007 2:24AMhttp://www.engadgetmobile.com/2007/10/17/court-clears-way-for-suit-hating-on-t-mobiles-locking-etf-poli/http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2007/10/17/court-clears-way-for-suit-hating-on-t-mobiles-locking-etf-poli/Oct 17th 2007 2:35AMhttp://www.engadgetmobile.com/2007/10/17/court-clears-way-for-suit-hating-on-t-mobiles-locking-etf-poli/http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2007/10/17/court-clears-way-for-suit-hating-on-t-mobiles-locking-etf-poli/Oct 17th 2007 2:27AMhttp://www.engadgetmobile.com/2007/10/17/court-clears-way-for-suit-hating-on-t-mobiles-locking-etf-poli/http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2007/10/17/court-clears-way-for-suit-hating-on-t-mobiles-locking-etf-poli/Oct 17th 2007 12:02PMhttp://www.engadgetmobile.com/2007/10/17/court-clears-way-for-suit-hating-on-t-mobiles-locking-etf-poli/http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2007/10/17/court-clears-way-for-suit-hating-on-t-mobiles-locking-etf-poli/Oct 17th 2007 3:02AMhttp://www.engadgetmobile.com/2007/10/17/court-clears-way-for-suit-hating-on-t-mobiles-locking-etf-poli/http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2007/10/17/court-clears-way-for-suit-hating-on-t-mobiles-locking-etf-poli/
Plain and simple.

As for the iPhone and Apple getting paid. They are paid 40% of the REVENUE, not PROFIT but REVENUE (off the top) for EACH iPHONE SOLD AND USED on AT&T. The cost of the phone to manufacture has been released as being about $230 for the 4GB and $280 for the 8GB models. That $399.99 and $599.99 prices they been selling them at, makes a KILLING not only for AT&T but also Apple.

Ill also note we live in an age where TECHNOLOGY for mobile telephony SHOULD NOT cost what the carriers will have us believe. Case in point. MOTO RAZR. One month it was $699 phone, 3 months later it was $299. Hmmm coincidentally did technology sprout up in 3 months to lower the price? No, it was all there the whole time. So when people talk about how much the poor carriers pay, its all BULL! Phone carriers get back EVERY DIME they spent within 90 days anyway.]]>Oct 17th 2007 4:42AMhttp://www.engadgetmobile.com/2007/10/17/court-clears-way-for-suit-hating-on-t-mobiles-locking-etf-poli/http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2007/10/17/court-clears-way-for-suit-hating-on-t-mobiles-locking-etf-poli/A better system would be that you can buy your phone from anyone you like and take it to any carrier you like. Then you could shop for a device solely based on features, and the carriers couldn't disable features to force their own services on you (i.e. disable a simple USB port and make you pay a monthly fee to backup your contacts!?!).
If paying the cost of a phone up front is too tough for you, buy a cheaper phone, pay on credit, or whatever. At least this way you'd be buying from a competitive market instead of a monopoly.]]>Oct 17th 2007 9:40AMhttp://www.engadgetmobile.com/2007/10/17/court-clears-way-for-suit-hating-on-t-mobiles-locking-etf-poli/http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2007/10/17/court-clears-way-for-suit-hating-on-t-mobiles-locking-etf-poli/
Seriously dude, all the carriers usually offer some low end clamshell for FREE with 2 yr contract. Do you think pantech or samsung assembled thousands upon thousands of that phone, shipped them to carrier X and said "oh don't worry about it, these phones are on the house"?

So because of these handset subsidies, the carriers are making a pretty profit off the monthly service already, hence why they can afford to sell these phones at a loss. By locking you into a TWO YEAR contract and enforcing that with an ETF, they are almost guaranteed to make that money back and then some.

I can believe you actually think handset subsidies are a myth... hilarious.]]>Oct 17th 2007 11:08PMhttp://www.engadgetmobile.com/2007/10/17/court-clears-way-for-suit-hating-on-t-mobiles-locking-etf-poli/http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2007/10/17/court-clears-way-for-suit-hating-on-t-mobiles-locking-etf-poli/Oct 17th 2007 12:04PMhttp://www.engadgetmobile.com/2007/10/17/court-clears-way-for-suit-hating-on-t-mobiles-locking-etf-poli/http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2007/10/17/court-clears-way-for-suit-hating-on-t-mobiles-locking-etf-poli/
A "free" phone I don't even like without the features and software I want, or a phone that I really want that is pricey (which I can put on credit or *gasp* save up for) and has all of the features and software I want? I'll take the latter, thank you.]]>Oct 17th 2007 9:39PMhttp://www.engadgetmobile.com/2007/10/17/court-clears-way-for-suit-hating-on-t-mobiles-locking-etf-poli/http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2007/10/17/court-clears-way-for-suit-hating-on-t-mobiles-locking-etf-poli/1. Want it unlocked - fine... The retail price is $500. Carrier Subsidizes the whole amount - therefore you're locked in for 2 years and the ETF would be prorated $500
2. Want it unlocked and no contract and no ETF? - Pay the full retail price
3. Want if locked - fine... ETF $250 prorated for two years

Basically the carriers could come up with ETF plans to match the preference of the client. That way the customer would have the freedom to decide what they want and the carrier would not have to deal with stupid lawsuits that some "I want it free and I want it now" jerk comes up with.

If you don't like your carrier...nobody is holding you ransom. But if you decided a year ago that you wanted a certain device and signed a two year agreement, but now want to get out of it because iFoney or some Crapberry is out...then shut up or pay up and get out.

That's just my 2 cents worth


Maciek
www.symbiosis60.com]]>Oct 17th 2007 10:05AMhttp://www.engadgetmobile.com/2007/10/17/court-clears-way-for-suit-hating-on-t-mobiles-locking-etf-poli/http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2007/10/17/court-clears-way-for-suit-hating-on-t-mobiles-locking-etf-poli/
I hadn't had any luck with this. I don't think it's true. The service providers standard 1 year or 2 year contracts seem to subsidize the plan rates, whether or not you opt-in for the subsidized handset. If you bring your own phone, it's prepaid, all the way.

One of the resolutions from this lawsuit should be postpaid plan benefits with a phone paid in full.]]>Oct 17th 2007 10:58AMhttp://www.engadgetmobile.com/2007/10/17/court-clears-way-for-suit-hating-on-t-mobiles-locking-etf-poli/http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2007/10/17/court-clears-way-for-suit-hating-on-t-mobiles-locking-etf-poli/Oct 17th 2007 7:05PMhttp://www.engadgetmobile.com/2007/10/17/court-clears-way-for-suit-hating-on-t-mobiles-locking-etf-poli/http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2007/10/17/court-clears-way-for-suit-hating-on-t-mobiles-locking-etf-poli/
I mean, providers claim the 1 or 2 year contract is for the subsidy given to the phone. They *claim* I should feel lucky i don't live in Europe where the phones cost so much more. But when it comes down to it and i bring in a phone i own, I immediately get shown the pre-paid plans and a postpaid plan by contract only.

On top of that, some salespeople say the postpaid rates are a benefit of having good credit, and i should be happy that my credit was run and i was *approved* for a contract. That's bull. Especially if I brought my own phone.]]>Oct 17th 2007 7:16PMhttp://www.engadgetmobile.com/2007/10/17/court-clears-way-for-suit-hating-on-t-mobiles-locking-etf-poli/http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2007/10/17/court-clears-way-for-suit-hating-on-t-mobiles-locking-etf-poli/
As for the poster who mentioned the drop in the RAZR price, you are initially paying to recoup the R&D costs for almost any technology; developing a phone is not free. If you forecast to sell X number of handsets you need to charge a certain price to recoup your costs. If then the forecast changes and you realize you want to move it to a lower price point and sales volumes would go up you can then reduce your price and spread the R&D and other fixed costs over more handsets thus reducing the unit price.
]]>Oct 17th 2007 11:22AMhttp://www.engadgetmobile.com/2007/10/17/court-clears-way-for-suit-hating-on-t-mobiles-locking-etf-poli/http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2007/10/17/court-clears-way-for-suit-hating-on-t-mobiles-locking-etf-poli/Oct 17th 2007 12:14PMhttp://www.engadgetmobile.com/2007/10/17/court-clears-way-for-suit-hating-on-t-mobiles-locking-etf-poli/http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2007/10/17/court-clears-way-for-suit-hating-on-t-mobiles-locking-etf-poli/
T-Mobile has, by far, the best customer service in the US market that I have experienced. I've dealt with Sprint/Nextel and AT&T/Cingular customer support on multiple occasions and the Sprint/Nextel is close but AT&T/Cingular support is no help at all...not to mention the long hold times with other support.]]>Oct 17th 2007 12:30PMhttp://www.engadgetmobile.com/2007/10/17/court-clears-way-for-suit-hating-on-t-mobiles-locking-etf-poli/http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2007/10/17/court-clears-way-for-suit-hating-on-t-mobiles-locking-etf-poli/
Right now, all of them subsidize because everyone else does it. If they could collude to remove subsidies on the count of 3, trust me they would.

If we had no subsidies, plans would DEFINITELY not go down. They would remain the same, and even though prices for phones may drop a little, it wouldn't be the Nice Phone for Free scenario that it currently is.

So I'm against this stupid lawsuit.]]>Oct 17th 2007 12:12PMhttp://www.engadgetmobile.com/2007/10/17/court-clears-way-for-suit-hating-on-t-mobiles-locking-etf-poli/http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2007/10/17/court-clears-way-for-suit-hating-on-t-mobiles-locking-etf-poli/
What we were discussing in the comments would be the ability to have a flexible contract for the people who don't want to be locked into an agreement for two years. While I don't plan on switching carriers I see no reason why I should be locked into a contract for two years when I only get a 1 year warranty on my phone and after said warranty expires I would either be SOL or have to pay for a new phone because the one I was using broke. I take full advantage of my subsidy for signing a one year contract but I also unlock my phone after the first 90 days so I can do as I please and travel with the phone without paying ridiculous roaming charges.

Anyway, off the tangent...my point was subsidies aren't all bad but as consumers we should have the choice to pay full price for a device with no requirement to stay with a carrier or willingly accept the subsidy and agree to stay with them for however long they require.]]>Oct 17th 2007 12:42PMhttp://www.engadgetmobile.com/2007/10/17/court-clears-way-for-suit-hating-on-t-mobiles-locking-etf-poli/http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2007/10/17/court-clears-way-for-suit-hating-on-t-mobiles-locking-etf-poli/ Anyway, off the tangent...my point was subsidies aren't all bad but as consumers we should have the
> choice to pay full price for a device with no requirement to stay with a carrier or willingly accept
> the subsidy and agree to stay with them for however long they require.

Exactly... When I joined T-Mobile in the fall of 2003 (I'm still with them and they're still my favorite carrier - I've tried them all), I showed up at a retail store with my own unlocked Sony Ericsson T68i and I still needed to sign a 1-year contract - that's the problem right there! I should be able to have a monthly voice/data plan without any contract, since I'm bringing my own device and it's not being subsidized. I don't like pay-as-you-go and I'm fine with the credit check so what's the problem?]]>Oct 17th 2007 1:48PMhttp://www.engadgetmobile.com/2007/10/17/court-clears-way-for-suit-hating-on-t-mobiles-locking-etf-poli/http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2007/10/17/court-clears-way-for-suit-hating-on-t-mobiles-locking-etf-poli/
It's called FlexPay and is probably by far the best thing that's happened to my sister who was having trouble getting a phone (other than prepaid) because she just graduated from high school and doesn't have an established credit history.

The only catch was that she had to pay full retail price (i.e. unsubsidized) for the phone, and she has to pay the monthly charges a month ahead of time. If she uses up her minutes, then she can just go out and buy a prepaid refill card at the cost of $.20/min. If she wants to buy anything else like ringtones, games, etc. she can do it with the prepaid refills.

IMO, it's actually even better because not only does she not have a contract, she ALREADY has the phone unlocked (because she paid full price), she can leave whenever she wants if she's not happy with the service, and she also doesn't have to worry about getting a huge phone bill as a surprise because she went over her minutes. That and she still has the same options for all the services that "normal" customers on a contract have - including the data plans - if she wants to later. there's nothing cripled or missing just because she doesn't have a credit history or a contract.]]>Oct 17th 2007 3:34PMhttp://www.engadgetmobile.com/2007/10/17/court-clears-way-for-suit-hating-on-t-mobiles-locking-etf-poli/http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2007/10/17/court-clears-way-for-suit-hating-on-t-mobiles-locking-etf-poli/
I would love to have the choice of changing carriers / devices whenever I wanted. It would almost certainly improve their customer service and plan pricing. I would gladly pay 5 or 6 hundred for my device with the knowledge that I could hang it off of whatever network worked best for me. ]]>Oct 17th 2007 7:58PMhttp://www.engadgetmobile.com/2007/10/17/court-clears-way-for-suit-hating-on-t-mobiles-locking-etf-poli/http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2007/10/17/court-clears-way-for-suit-hating-on-t-mobiles-locking-etf-poli/
At this point I'd prefer to spend two years saving up for a phone on my own and then have a business relationship with a carrier that's actually interested in providing good service to me because that business is inherently profitable for them.

I fully admit I'm weird, though. Most people need their instant gratification.]]>Oct 19th 2007 8:13PMhttp://www.engadgetmobile.com/2007/10/17/court-clears-way-for-suit-hating-on-t-mobiles-locking-etf-poli/http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2007/10/17/court-clears-way-for-suit-hating-on-t-mobiles-locking-etf-poli/Oct 21st 2007 2:49PMhttp://www.engadgetmobile.com/2007/10/17/court-clears-way-for-suit-hating-on-t-mobiles-locking-etf-poli/http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2007/10/17/court-clears-way-for-suit-hating-on-t-mobiles-locking-etf-poli/Oct 22nd 2007 12:24PMhttp://www.engadgetmobile.com/2007/10/17/court-clears-way-for-suit-hating-on-t-mobiles-locking-etf-poli/http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2007/10/17/court-clears-way-for-suit-hating-on-t-mobiles-locking-etf-poli/Oct 24th 2007 2:26PM